Author Topic: Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links  (Read 374 times)

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Offline BehindBlueEyes

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Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links
« on: July 02, 2010, 04:32:54 PM »
These programs have been the "elephant in the room" that everyone is aware of but no one is willing to discuss.  It's time.  

Cjay has stated that she will use personal money to make payouts as soon as she receives the cheque she is waiting for and there is no reason whatsoever to doubt this.  She is an amazing person who will stand by her word and I've no doubt that she would go without in order to pay members... that's not what I'm concerned about. The amount owing in the payout queue has to be in excess of $2100.  I've compared my request with several others and there is an average of 2 requests per day and it is reasonably likely that close to half of those in the queue are carrying enough balance to requeue immediately once paid.  Yes the line has moved because there were partial payments done recently $3.00 to 29 members ($87)  There were 13 payments of $8 in May ($104)  Although she stated in an admin that she uploaded money to make payments it wasn't clear if it was personal funds or affiliate revenue... assuming it was revenue from the site... the program is losing ground at an alarming rate and I haven't seen any evidence of effort to address that.  The PTP just doesn't have sufficient ads on it to carry it's 70cpm plus a 28% referral earning when credits are converted.    

I admire her gumption and her resolve to pay out of her personal money, but if the site is not making enough to cover members earnings, it doesn't matter how much money is thrown into it now to bring the amount owing now to zero, the same situation will recur in a few months.  This is be the case with almost all programs with PTP unfortunately, not just Deep and Lady.   :(

The second thing that concerns me is that ads are not being processed in a timely manner and some redemptions don't appear to even been received.  Personal circumstances probably limit the attention she is able to devote to the site and that's understandable.  PTR members are over all a caring and understanding group, who will forgo payments and redeem instead to help a PO over a rough patch, they always have done so, but if the ads don't go out in a reasonable time, it's never resulted in a good situation.  The program needs a helper and has for some time.  Even with a helper a PTP needs a lot of attention.  

Offline spirit

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Re: Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2010, 09:01:02 PM »
 The program needs a helper and has for some time.  Even with a helper a PTP needs a lot of attention.  

I don't belong to either of these programs, but this is such an important point.  It's just good sense and good business to have some help on hand -- if not for the day to day, then at least for emergencies.

It's one of the things I consider in joining a program now. 

Offline danddwah

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Re: Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2010, 10:28:49 PM »
CJay may not want a helper, but if she did, I am sure there would be many willing to assist, myself included.

Dave
pandabearemails.net & whitetigeremails.com

Offline Esperanza

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Re: Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2010, 05:13:13 AM »
The PTP just doesn't have sufficient ads on it to carry it's 70cpm plus a 28% referral earning when credits are converted.    

This statement is most likely true for most PTP pages around if not all. The affiliate network ads hardly generate income anymore (if they ever did) and in my opinion the solution of some PO's to plaster as many affiliate ads as they can on their PTP page doesn't make a substantial difference.
Examples of this that many will recognize are Xray-Cash and Xrayemails. Their PTP pages have always had more affiliate network ads than any other around (though the moneymakers group programs and Vale come close) yet even at the highpoint of their popularity these two programs have always been behind in payouts and it's my estimation that the income generated by the PTP pages never covered their cost.

To enlighten you: I don't mind posting here how much revenue E-Qoo2's PTP page generated from affiliate network ads over June and July: a whopping $1.96. Let me try to explain why so little.

Advertisers are not stupid and most of them know that more is not necessarily better. So they understand that for instance banner views have little value because on PTP pages with many ads their banner won't get much attention if any at all. Even if they pay for banners views, they pay very very little. The affiliate network I use now doesn't pay for banner views at all.

What advertisers (and advertising networks) do pay for is a clickthough, in the assumption that someone who clicks on a banner is genuinely interested in the promoted page, program or product.
This may be true in general but not in PTR. It's not uncommon for program owners to let their members know that clicking on affiliate ads generates income for the site, without directly telling them to click those ads. Members generally aren't stupid, they get the message and click on the affiliate ads without genuine interest.
 
Please don't think that advertisers and affiliate networks won't recognize this type of clicks: as soon as they notice that all those clickthroughs don't result in sales they will refuse to pay for them.
If it concerns a single program then this program will most likely be kicked from the network. But once members know they support one program with a click they also know they support another program as well with a click on their affiliate ads even if that owner never even mentioned or hinted at it. So they click an affiliate ad here and one there and then a pattern emerges that is well recognized by the affiliate networks. The result: a blanket ban of all PTR programs.

It only takes one program owner with bad judgement and lack of insight to get this going. Unfortunately there are more than just one who simply don't understand that by (either indirectly or direcly) asking their members to commit click fraud - because that's what it really is - they damage each and every PTR program out there. Of course there are also program owners who do know but think they'll get away with it and they usually do for a short while but never for long.

In short: PTR - in general - bit most of the hands that fed it. And that's why so many affiliate networks refuse to accept PTR programs and why if they do accept them, there are usually strict limitations to earning options.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 05:20:43 AM by Esperanza »

Offline BehindBlueEyes

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Re: Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2010, 07:59:44 AM »
The PTP just doesn't have sufficient ads on it to carry it's 70cpm plus a 28% referral earning when credits are converted.    

This statement is most likely true for most PTP pages around if not all. The affiliate network ads hardly generate income anymore (if they ever did) and in my opinion the solution of some PO's to plaster as many affiliate ads as they can on their PTP page doesn't make a substantial difference.
Examples of this that many will recognize are Xray-Cash and Xrayemails. Their PTP pages have always had more affiliate network ads than any other around (though the moneymakers group programs and Vale come close) yet even at the highpoint of their popularity these two programs have always been behind in payouts and it's my estimation that the income generated by the PTP pages never covered their cost.

To enlighten you: I don't mind posting here how much revenue E-Qoo2's PTP page generated from affiliate network ads over June and July: a whopping $1.96. Let me try to explain why so little.

Advertisers are not stupid and most of them know that more is not necessarily better. So they understand that for instance banner views have little value because on PTP pages with many ads their banner won't get much attention if any at all. Even if they pay for banners views, they pay very very little. The affiliate network I use now doesn't pay for banner views at all.

What advertisers (and advertising networks) do pay for is a clickthough, in the assumption that someone who clicks on a banner is genuinely interested in the promoted page, program or product.
This may be true in general but not in PTR. It's not uncommon for program owners to let their members know that clicking on affiliate ads generates income for the site, without directly telling them to click those ads. Members generally aren't stupid, they get the message and click on the affiliate ads without genuine interest.
 
Please don't think that advertisers and affiliate networks won't recognize this type of clicks: as soon as they notice that all those clickthroughs don't result in sales they will refuse to pay for them.
If it concerns a single program then this program will most likely be kicked from the network. But once members know they support one program with a click they also know they support another program as well with a click on their affiliate ads even if that owner never even mentioned or hinted at it. So they click an affiliate ad here and one there and then a pattern emerges that is well recognized by the affiliate networks. The result: a blanket ban of all PTR programs.

It only takes one program owner with bad judgement and lack of insight to get this going. Unfortunately there are more than just one who simply don't understand that by (either indirectly or direcly) asking their members to commit click fraud - because that's what it really is - they damage each and every PTR program out there. Of course there are also program owners who do know but think they'll get away with it and they usually do for a short while but never for long.

In short: PTR - in general - bit most of the hands that fed it. And that's why so many affiliate networks refuse to accept PTR programs and why if they do accept them, there are usually strict limitations to earning options.


Just addressing the bolded part.  That's probably close to an industry average.  Unfortunately, it isn't really revenue at that stage because it only counts if you can meet the programs minimum payout, if they don't cancel your account before you can get paid and if they are still around when/if you meet their minimum payout. 

Offline crash

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Re: Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2010, 08:31:59 AM »
The PTP just doesn't have sufficient ads on it to carry it's 70cpm plus a 28% referral earning when credits are converted.    

This statement is most likely true for most PTP pages around if not all. The affiliate network ads hardly generate income anymore (if they ever did) and in my opinion the solution of some PO's to plaster as many affiliate ads as they can on their PTP page doesn't make a substantial difference.
Examples of this that many will recognize are Xray-Cash and Xrayemails. Their PTP pages have always had more affiliate network ads than any other around (though the moneymakers group programs and Vale come close) yet even at the highpoint of their popularity these two programs have always been behind in payouts and it's my estimation that the income generated by the PTP pages never covered their cost.

To enlighten you: I don't mind posting here how much revenue E-Qoo2's PTP page generated from affiliate network ads over June and July: a whopping $1.96. Let me try to explain why so little.

Advertisers are not stupid and most of them know that more is not necessarily better. So they understand that for instance banner views have little value because on PTP pages with many ads their banner won't get much attention if any at all. Even if they pay for banners views, they pay very very little. The affiliate network I use now doesn't pay for banner views at all.

What advertisers (and advertising networks) do pay for is a clickthough, in the assumption that someone who clicks on a banner is genuinely interested in the promoted page, program or product.
This may be true in general but not in PTR. It's not uncommon for program owners to let their members know that clicking on affiliate ads generates income for the site, without directly telling them to click those ads. Members generally aren't stupid, they get the message and click on the affiliate ads without genuine interest.
 
Please don't think that advertisers and affiliate networks won't recognize this type of clicks: as soon as they notice that all those clickthroughs don't result in sales they will refuse to pay for them.
If it concerns a single program then this program will most likely be kicked from the network. But once members know they support one program with a click they also know they support another program as well with a click on their affiliate ads even if that owner never even mentioned or hinted at it. So they click an affiliate ad here and one there and then a pattern emerges that is well recognized by the affiliate networks. The result: a blanket ban of all PTR programs.

It only takes one program owner with bad judgement and lack of insight to get this going. Unfortunately there are more than just one who simply don't understand that by (either indirectly or direcly) asking their members to commit click fraud - because that's what it really is - they damage each and every PTR program out there. Of course there are also program owners who do know but think they'll get away with it and they usually do for a short while but never for long.

In short: PTR - in general - bit most of the hands that fed it. And that's why so many affiliate networks refuse to accept PTR programs and why if they do accept them, there are usually strict limitations to earning options.


Good post Esperanza

Offline BehindBlueEyes

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Re: Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2010, 03:26:32 PM »
CJay may not want a helper, but if she did, I am sure there would be many willing to assist, myself included.

Dave

I really wish she would let somebody help.  I have ads waiting since mid May to be processed, none of my 30,000 rotator views from my multisite upgrade for June got set up at either site.  :(

Offline queenoftheuniverse

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Re: Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2010, 08:45:24 AM »
I was discussing this earlier today with another PO.  If she doesn't want a full time admin, give somebody access to the database to process PTC, banner impressions and rotator views for 1-2 days a month. Change the password each month after the helper is done if she has an issue with that.

None of my June or July upgraded ads have been processed at deep or lady.  If it weren't for that spreadsheet I'd be duplicating ads left and right.  And I just bought a month-long affiliate page, am afraid to submit rotator views for it at deep or lady as the page will probably be expired by the time she gets around to setting up the views
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
Robert A. Heinlein

Offline queenoftheuniverse

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Re: Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 01:58:06 AM »
Received notice late last night (the 16th) from Deep C Links that all of my June rotator ads have been processed,  nothing from Lady yet, and July not set up yet at either site
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
Robert A. Heinlein

Offline albs

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Re: Deep-C-Links & Lady Of The Links
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 02:21:46 PM »
Still waiting for a response at Deep to see if she rec'd my redemption in early February.  :(